UrbanSurvivalSkills.com received a long comment from Anonymous regarding the post "Societal Collapse - Part 2: Poverty, Chronically Ill....":
Good comments from a thinking person and they deserve return comments from me not only from what I disagree with but what I agree on. Anonymous' comments are in Italics.
He's guessing based on worse case. Argentina is a reasonable model of a economic collapse and virtually everything he talks about simply did not happen. Some cities will be problematic or more correctly have pockets of problem areas but most cities will ba as safe as the countryside is. I'm not saying it will be just as safe as today but that it won't be an huge difference and leaving the city won't make you safe. In fact the only real difference is if the bad guy gets you in the country he has more time to do bad things because there is no one around to catch him or stop him.
UrbanMan replies: I have to disagree somewhat here. The cities may be as safe as rural areas but only for so long. After a undetermined time period food is going to scare. Some people may have to move to the Government run FEMA type camps in order to survive - these will be the unprepared people. I have also said that Survival is a Team Sport and you have to have a prepared plan. Having a rural location to move to and meet with other alike minded people is going to much safer. I would agree that moving to the country won't make you safer unless you have a Survival Group to rely on and have a plan and are prepared to survive there, food, water and security wise.
An economic collapse will be very much like the great depression. Lots of problems and not enough food and necessities but people will still continue to live their lives and take care of their needs as best they can. As far as disease is concerned unless you are talking about a pandemic and not an economic collapse disease is unlikely to be a major factor. Yes, people who are already seriously ill will be at risk, but healthy people won't just get sick and die.
UrbanMan replies: I'm thinking that another great depression will be much worse than the 1930's, since we have a much more highly mobile population; the population is much greater in density; instant communications via cell phones and the internet will influence the population; and, the United States is much less capable to feed our own population than we were in the 1930's. I think that with a 27% increase in people on food stamps and a 34% increase in people on unemployment benefits, we now have the largest gap in the "have's" and the "have nots", and that combined with the cultural shift over the past several decades into an entitliest society creates a giant potential for anarchy upon a economic collapse.
One of the problems is knowing what is going to happen. No one knows. We can guess and then guess what the result might be but no one knows.
UrbanMan replies: Roger on the know one knows. I think you have to wargame against the possible and probable threats to your survival which boil down to two things: Subsistence (water and food) and Security.
One thing this guys forgets as he tries to conflate the New Orleans experience with an economic collapse: Most people did in fact get the hell out of New Orleans and took care of themselves. Most of those who stayed were already on some form of welfare and had never in their lives "taken care of themselves". If you are expecting the government to provide then you will be very disappointed. But the government will most likely do what it can considering the scope of the problem another great depression would cause.
UrbanMan replies: You are right on New Orleans and the people waiting for the government to take care of them - should be a lesson to us all. I have worked for the government for over three decades. I have little faith in the government's ability to take care of the population and in fact I think the government will likely be the cause of the economic collapse.
Tuesday, October 19, 2010
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My response: I "mostly agree with you about cities (big cities), but I do think if the crisis is "only" an economic collapse that we won't lose fire & law enforcement, hospitals, grocery stores, etc. So while Los Angeles or NY City might be dramatically more dangerous I do not think most cities, especially the smaller ones will be. However if we are talking about something far worse then all bets are off.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree that another great depression will have worse consequences with our larger mostly urban population. I think it will be especially difficult for those on welfare because we would have to assume that a lot of these benefits would be slashed. Where I disagree is the who have's vs have nots. Most of us here in the U.S. are middle class. Even poor people on welfare have more money, benefits and goods then the middle class in Europe does. Most of the poor people I know have two cars, three color TV's, air conditioners and est steak a couple times a week. The few who are rich don't mingle with you and I and while it may irritate you that they are rich it makes ZERO difference in your life or how you live today or even after a depression. If they were poor tomorrow it wouldn't help you or me or the situation. So people will indeed be angry that their cushy lives have changed for the worse but there won't be any "have's" around to take it out on.
I do think we are today looking at the best last chance any people or any country has ever had. That is we can see this coming and we more or less know what to expect. But we could go to the store today and buy all of the necessities and it is relatively inexpensive. You can go out today and buy a years supply of canned, dried and fresh food and you could even use a credit card. Everyone should at least buy a years supply of food and necessities and store them in a closet, basement or garage. We don't have to go into this crisis like the people in New Orleans did.