This was a comment posted on the "7 Day Warning to SHTF" post: "I don't believe "hoarding and stockpiling" are advantageous. It gives you a fixed position, which you must defend. I believe the better path is get as far away from urban areas as possible. Go where you know there's water. Where there is water there are animals. Get a field guide of Edible Plants of North America. Learn to use a bow. Chainsaws, cooking fires, and gunfire will draw unwanted attention eventually. "
UrbanMan's reply: I agree that being away from the heavily populated areas, have a year round natural water source AND have a heavily stocked survival inventory is obviously the hands down best survival plan for the collapse.
I also agree that wilderness survival skills knowing how to survvie with basically nothing; identifying edible plants in your area; purifying water; building expdeient shelters; building fires; food procurement such as hunting , trapping and fishing, etc., are are basic and necessary skills for short term survival periods,....but it sounds like you are proposing surviving out of pack in the woods. I think the whole idea of survival prepping is not only to live but to live with some type of quality of live as close to normal as you can. Tjat means having stocks of food and supplies,...some sort of infrastructure even if it is just a cabin and a year round stream, and utilemtly a survival group were you can leverage everyone else's skills, expertise and security in numbers.
Some people will decide to Bug In for many diverse reasons:
1. Some people actually live in the big city and do not own their own transportation putting them in a great deficit when trying to Bug Out.
2. Others, maybe hedging their bets, think that although a collapse is unlikely, they prepare in some form or fashion but still think the Government will make things right in short order, so there is only a need to Bug In for a couple weeks. These people may run through their supplies and be left high and dry placing themselves at great risk when planning an impromptu, read unplanned or last minute, Bug Out.
3. Financial reasons plays a large part in what people will do. How much resources (time and money) you can devote to prepping; the need to have a job and bring in income sometimes dictates the location you live. 4. There will undoubtably be people who do not have nor cannot or are unwilling to develop the skills sets necessary to Bug Out.
5. Some people will decide that some things are more important in the short term such as living snormal a life as possible, being close to friends and family, etc. It is simply way too much past their comfort zone to leave behind their lives even when staying in place puts them at great risk. You see this time and time again in natural disasters such like Hurricane Sandy. Maybe something akin to the German Jews who were rounded up for slaughter thinking this cannot be happening. This denial is a key stage for people when death is imminient as in last stage cancer patients.
Bottom line for me is that I'll continue to better my survival chances. I have a chain saw. I have several hand saws to include camping bows. I am no stranger to building fires and using an axe and a wedge. I have quite a bit of experience in wilderness survival. Quite a bite of resources in identifying edible and poisonous plants. I have used many different techniques in fishing - nets, straight poles, flies, trolling, bow and arrow - water source with fish? No problem, here comes dinner.
And I will continue to build my survival stocks. More long range food. Enough ammunition as well. While the straight up Urban areas are going to be death traps in most all cases, there will be suburban areas, off refugee routes, that have a chance of organizing and maintaining a viable chance for survival. I'm planning on Bugging In, but several plans for Bugging Out as well. Good luck to you my friend.
Thursday, November 1, 2012
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Living off the land is case of too much and too little. In August where I live I could pick 5 gallons of blackberries in a day. In september I can harvest literally bushels of apples from abandoned trees or trees on public property. From November to June not so much is available and I would be hard pressed to feed myself. There are fish and wild game but if the rest of my fellow citizens were living off the land this resource would disappear. If we ever do have a real SHTF situation I think most of those who plan to live off the land will be found dead next to their field guide of edible plants.
ReplyDeleteI do think that as well as having a stockpile of food and knowing how to rotate it know about wilderness survival to supplement that stockpile will help it stretch and the more remote area that one BUGs out to with provide a more supplemental diet and it will not be all hunted and gathered out. Plus nature always has a way of replenishing itself if one manages their surrounds properly which I intend to. And not many people know of my BUG out location and its far from where most will want to go even with todays population it is a very very remote locale, with plenty of natural supplemental nutrients around.
ReplyDeleteHere is the problem with all of this as I understand the facts. Before 1492 there were perhaps 15 million more or less living in North America. These people were the experts in survival and living off the land. Famine and mass dieoffs were the rule!! It was not all milk and honey it was a damned hard life and there were only 15 million. Fast forward to today with 310 million and no one, not even the descendants of these native people are experts on survival and living off the land. If it were to get that bad (and I'm not a believer that it will) that we are forced to live off the land then I repeat we will be found dead next to our field guide on edible plants.
ReplyDeleteThere will be hundreds of thousands of people with the same idea as you. Hunting, fishing, foraging...etc. I live in a small city next to Lake Erie, and I know that thousands of people will be using the lake and the rivers for their survival. I will not go anywhere near there in a real survival situation. The wooded areas will be teeming with "wanna-be" hunters trying to bag dinner for their family when the food runs out. I have very few places I can bug out to, and I have a feeling that there will be a mass exodus from this area if we lose utilities, and trucked in food anyway. That is unless the National Guard, police, and other agencies do not shut down or restrict travel. My job, and skills will keep me local anyway, as I will be part of the emergency response personnel working. So bugging in is my only viable route. Plus, I have aged parents living locally, who can't travel to well. My father can barely walk. I have built a family plan that has turned into a neighborhood plan. We will all stick together, or die separately.
ReplyDeleteThat's my two cents.
ok, I am the original poster. to clarify, I live in Sacramento area and can be in the Sierra's or the coast range in a 3-5 day walk. You guys/gals make it sound like you need fixed assets. what happens when you open your last can of beans ?? You'll be found dead next to them 4 days later. There's a saying that anyone that starves to death in North America is ignorant. Will it be easy ?? No, not at all. would I rather be picking plants, looking at the book, looking for tracks, setting snares............. OR, looking out the window of my cabin to see if someone has seen my chimney smoke, day, after day. I suppose one, who is motivated, could be successful at living off the land where I live. That ability, would make him a welcome asset to any group, at any fixed position.
ReplyDeleteSo, what happens when your prepping community, runs out of food, or someone needs a doctor, or there's personality issues that can't be resolved because, practice as you may, nobody can really rehearse for the SHTF, it's all hypothetical.
My community is me, my wife, and 3 kids (17,15,10). We last as long as we can, if the shit stops hitting the fan, we come out of the woods. If it doesn't, everyone will eventually either be bound to heading back to the city to scavenge, or heading to the wilderness to hunt and gather. I just prefer to start there. I appreciate any thoughtful criticism. By the way, I will have a hunting bow, a single shot 16 guage shotgun, and a Glock 17. Probably 200 rounds of shotgun ammo and 500 rounds of 9mm. More that that is too heavy. Hopefully all hunting done by snares, traps ( rat traps ) and bow. No noise. biggest asset for me would be the dutch oven, heavy, but if the bug out is more than two months, totally worth it.
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One more ugly scenario with groups of people in small places ( cabin ) I would imagine the "indoor' conditions would be "tight" for a multiple family tribe. Bad guys case your spot, know there's food inside, and grab grandpa or junior when they hit the outhouse. then what??? I'll tell you what. You lose.
ReplyDelete"Oh, we'll have sentries posted." at night, in the rain, day after day, night after night, every time someone uses the latrine ?? I think the only safe cabin doesn't have a road to it and hasn't been built yet. google earth........
I do realize that everyone has constraints with elderly, 'youngerly" etc. But after this recent election, I am stepping up what I need. Best of luck to y'all. I'm wondering if urban man should create a greeting....for any preppers meeting on the trail, so nobody gets jumpy. Interlocking forefingers with thumbs up..... that type of, 'hey your ok' greeting. Meeting with other groups for dialogue would be a pretty good asset but there's going to be good groups and bad groups.
"Plans are meaningless, planning is everything". Dwight Eisenhower
But some of us who are indigenous have had these survival skills passed down from generation to generation. Other than flint knapping my grnadfather and father have taught me survival skill and they have been tested over the years and I teach and test my children as well. Yes we have modern food rations stored, but we also use the land to supplement our survival. It is best to practice your plan now and start by rotating and living off what you have so you know how to prepare and use the things that you have prepared to use. We are approximately 6months to a year from being totally self reliant self sufficient already we are in this for the long haul and anyone snooping around now just might be the next meal that is the Karankawa in me, but yes those that are not accustomed to this type of life style just might be found dead with the field guide in hand just like that dude that moved up to Alaska that someone wrote a book and made a movie about. And if you are in a larger populated area yes the game will be killed out fast. But most folks aren't wanting to come to these neck of the woods hell hardly anyone comes in them now at all mostly because they are scared to walk in them.
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt some indigenous people and many non-indigenous people know survivla skills. But if you have ever been to a reservation you will discover that for 90% of those living there survival skills consist of getting th handout and free stuff from Uncle Sam and spending it on drugs and alcohol. If you think the "Indians" are living like they did before 1492 you are sadly out of touch. I live within 5 hours drive of about 8 reservations complete with casinos and it is an eye opener. murders, alcohol, assaults, alcohol, theft, alcohol, robbery, alcohol, car theft, drugs, alcohol and did I say alcohol. My suggestion to those who think they can survive is get up one day in December and carrying what you can by walking travel the hundred miles or so to you BOL and give it a try. Good luck.
ReplyDelete